epitaphic
Aug 20, 08:07 AM
Not every professional is going to need more than 4 cores let alone be willing to pay for it. I think the more processors, the more specialized the computer is going to become.
This is precisely the transition we've been seeing for some time, becoming more and more apparent every 6 months. Computers are no longer general purpose machines. It's already happened to consumers: machines today are way more than what's needed for web and email. For prosumers, its just about right, for gamers, you can never have enough single core + GPU power.
I think its fair to say to that the Mac Pro is in a way too specialized already. If you look at it's server RAM for example, which group of professionals benefits from its strengths? How many professionals will actually be able to get close to using all four cores during their normal workflow?
The way i see it, there are about 8 mainstream lines of professionals:
- 3D Artists
- Coders
- Graphic Designers
- IT
- Multimedia Artists
- Musicians
- Photographers
- Video Editors
Who can fully utilize 4 cores right now? I'd say possibly 3D Artists, Musicians(quad G5 only), and IT.
Sure everyone else will probably get a 15% kick in performance in some apps but for the most part, 4 core Mac Pro is not going to make your apps run any faster (it does give the machine more headroom for ample multitasking though). Of course at the moment there is only a 4 core Mac Pro so it's a bit academic to discuss the fact that a 2 core Mac Pro would be just as productive and much more cost effective. However, as most of you probably already know, there are good chances of an 8 core Mac Pro in January.
Sidenote: This sort of update (new machine in August, new machine following January) is not new. It happened in 2002-2003 resulting in the top of the line machine introduced in August to drop 40% in price in January.
So the interesting thing to speculate now is, if most of us have a hard time utilizing a quad to its full potential, what would an 8 core do for you? I know its not cost effective for apple at the moment, but in the future I suspect we'll be seeing 4-8 lines of professional macs.
This is precisely the transition we've been seeing for some time, becoming more and more apparent every 6 months. Computers are no longer general purpose machines. It's already happened to consumers: machines today are way more than what's needed for web and email. For prosumers, its just about right, for gamers, you can never have enough single core + GPU power.
I think its fair to say to that the Mac Pro is in a way too specialized already. If you look at it's server RAM for example, which group of professionals benefits from its strengths? How many professionals will actually be able to get close to using all four cores during their normal workflow?
The way i see it, there are about 8 mainstream lines of professionals:
- 3D Artists
- Coders
- Graphic Designers
- IT
- Multimedia Artists
- Musicians
- Photographers
- Video Editors
Who can fully utilize 4 cores right now? I'd say possibly 3D Artists, Musicians(quad G5 only), and IT.
Sure everyone else will probably get a 15% kick in performance in some apps but for the most part, 4 core Mac Pro is not going to make your apps run any faster (it does give the machine more headroom for ample multitasking though). Of course at the moment there is only a 4 core Mac Pro so it's a bit academic to discuss the fact that a 2 core Mac Pro would be just as productive and much more cost effective. However, as most of you probably already know, there are good chances of an 8 core Mac Pro in January.
Sidenote: This sort of update (new machine in August, new machine following January) is not new. It happened in 2002-2003 resulting in the top of the line machine introduced in August to drop 40% in price in January.
So the interesting thing to speculate now is, if most of us have a hard time utilizing a quad to its full potential, what would an 8 core do for you? I know its not cost effective for apple at the moment, but in the future I suspect we'll be seeing 4-8 lines of professional macs.
Hellhammer
Aug 8, 04:29 AM
I bought GT PSP and its as if the developers actively tried to suck all the enjoyment out of the series.
I've seen several people saying that it's starting to be a car encyclopedia rather than an enjoyable racing game. I kinda agree with that. My last experience with GT is GT2 on PS1 I think but I'm looking forward on this game. Hopefully it will be what I expect, a good, solid driving game. I hope they have spent time on the actual driving too, not just with the cars and 3D stuff etc
I've seen several people saying that it's starting to be a car encyclopedia rather than an enjoyable racing game. I kinda agree with that. My last experience with GT is GT2 on PS1 I think but I'm looking forward on this game. Hopefully it will be what I expect, a good, solid driving game. I hope they have spent time on the actual driving too, not just with the cars and 3D stuff etc
NickPill
Aug 7, 11:56 PM
It's not yet available to ADC Select/Premier members that didn't go to todays keynote.
I'd kinda like to know myself since I couldn't attend.
Thanks for the info. But I can�t believe Apple will not offer 10.5 for downloading. It sounded like that every ADC Select and Premier member would get a copy immediately... Too bad I couldn�t make it this year to the WWDC.
I'd kinda like to know myself since I couldn't attend.
Thanks for the info. But I can�t believe Apple will not offer 10.5 for downloading. It sounded like that every ADC Select and Premier member would get a copy immediately... Too bad I couldn�t make it this year to the WWDC.
mcrain
Apr 27, 08:48 AM
So, 38% of the American people, and a majority of the tea-party just had their "faith" that the President was somehow not legitimate pulled out from under them. If the goal was to fracture the ties that bind that group, the timing couldn't have been better.
With the recent backlash against the Paul budget and attempt to destroy Medicare, what binds the tea party together now? President Obama has agreed to cuts, he tried to avoid the bush tax cuts on the wealthy, but caved to save the middle income tax breaks; now he wants to roll back the tax breaks for the wealthy, eliminating tax breaks for oil companies, and seems willing to consider a lot of other things to deal with the budget and economy. The Republican town hall meetings seem to show that people may finally be realizing that Democrats are actually the party of fiscal responsibility.
I truly hope that the GOP learns from the last 30 years, and especially the last 20 years. Obstructing the other party is not the best way to run the government for the benefit of all of the American people. Compromise is not a bad word. Facts are your friend.
With the recent backlash against the Paul budget and attempt to destroy Medicare, what binds the tea party together now? President Obama has agreed to cuts, he tried to avoid the bush tax cuts on the wealthy, but caved to save the middle income tax breaks; now he wants to roll back the tax breaks for the wealthy, eliminating tax breaks for oil companies, and seems willing to consider a lot of other things to deal with the budget and economy. The Republican town hall meetings seem to show that people may finally be realizing that Democrats are actually the party of fiscal responsibility.
I truly hope that the GOP learns from the last 30 years, and especially the last 20 years. Obstructing the other party is not the best way to run the government for the benefit of all of the American people. Compromise is not a bad word. Facts are your friend.
Multimedia
Aug 18, 09:13 PM
From the time the Apple logo is displayed. There is a pause before that starts, I'd say only 10 seconds or so.So You are saying 10 seconds from OFF to the Grey Apple then 5 more seconds to the desktop? With 3 GB of New Egg + 2GB RAM? That's still very fast. Quad G5 is almost as fast as that though.
Amazing Iceman
Mar 22, 04:46 PM
well said. it's hard to even have a civil conversation here anymore. not sure what the majority of the age group here is now, but the discussions since i've joined here just a couple of years ago seem to be on the decline with immaturity. there are a handful of respectful and open minded people who do back up their thoughts with details and sense, but you'd have to wade through a lot of "fanboy" (i hate that term) jargon to sift the ones worth replying to.
True. The debate gets too personal, and starts loosing credibility after a while.
If this was a live debate, there would have been a shootout already.
Cool off people, and provide solid arguments to sustain your point.
True. The debate gets too personal, and starts loosing credibility after a while.
If this was a live debate, there would have been a shootout already.
Cool off people, and provide solid arguments to sustain your point.
Multimedia
Aug 27, 02:12 AM
I still pity those guys expecting "Major" MBP performance gain by moving to Merom without Santa Rosa. They are as ignorant as those people expecting G5s with their two pound heat sinks to go in powerbooks. I'm just looking forward to see Conroe iMac and better battery life for MBPs. And iPod update off course ;)I don't give a rat's A** about Santa Rosa. What I do give a Rat's A** about is that Easy Access HD Bay. The ability to have multiple 160 GB HDs standing by for different field purposes can make for revolutionary work flow procedures.
Multimedia
Aug 18, 08:53 AM
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/mac%20pro_081406100848/12798.png
I think this speaks for itself.
When I'm working on one project, that's all my attention to it. When I'd like to encode it, I'd like my however many cores to be at full blast. Sadly, that's not happening at the moment and will remain so until they rewrite h264 encoding.
Like I said, unless people are doing what you do (sending multiple files to be encoded at the same time all the time) they won't benefit from 4, 8, 100 cores.
Now if anyone can show benchmarks that show FCP being 40-50% faster on a quad than on a dual when working on a project, I'll shut up :)That chart speaks for NOTHING. Comparing a Mac Pro to old 2004 single core Dual G5 PowerMacs is a completely irrelevant and spurious "test". This entire review is flawed by the missing Quad G5. BTW I don't use H.264 at all ever.
I think this speaks for itself.
When I'm working on one project, that's all my attention to it. When I'd like to encode it, I'd like my however many cores to be at full blast. Sadly, that's not happening at the moment and will remain so until they rewrite h264 encoding.
Like I said, unless people are doing what you do (sending multiple files to be encoded at the same time all the time) they won't benefit from 4, 8, 100 cores.
Now if anyone can show benchmarks that show FCP being 40-50% faster on a quad than on a dual when working on a project, I'll shut up :)That chart speaks for NOTHING. Comparing a Mac Pro to old 2004 single core Dual G5 PowerMacs is a completely irrelevant and spurious "test". This entire review is flawed by the missing Quad G5. BTW I don't use H.264 at all ever.
j26
Nov 29, 06:26 AM
My initial reservations about this story (the Zune/Universal payment) was much like eveybody's elses on these forums - very bad for us and screw 'em. But now that I've had time to think it through I actually think it's a fantastic idea.
Fantastic for the consumer and the artist, and potentially catastrophic for Universal Music.
Allow me to explain! Somebody buys a Zune or iPod that has had the 'Universal Tax' applied to it and then fills it with 30GB of stolen Universal music. It goes to court and the 'Pirate' successfully argues that he/she has already compensated UMG by buying the iPod/Zune. The judge agrees and piracy of Universal music becomes legal so long as it's for the 'UMG taxed' iPod or Zune. UMG collapses overnight and the artists get to release music on their terms and get more of the money that they deserve, not the faceless corporations and shareholders.
Why is this good for us? Because every entertainment company would become very wary of labelling us all 'pirates' and might actually realise that digital distribution at a fair price is their future.
D'oh somebody has already written something to this effect whilst I was typing!!
But do you really think a court will decide that way. Not likely, especially if it's a judge from the wealth maximisation school of thought.
Fantastic for the consumer and the artist, and potentially catastrophic for Universal Music.
Allow me to explain! Somebody buys a Zune or iPod that has had the 'Universal Tax' applied to it and then fills it with 30GB of stolen Universal music. It goes to court and the 'Pirate' successfully argues that he/she has already compensated UMG by buying the iPod/Zune. The judge agrees and piracy of Universal music becomes legal so long as it's for the 'UMG taxed' iPod or Zune. UMG collapses overnight and the artists get to release music on their terms and get more of the money that they deserve, not the faceless corporations and shareholders.
Why is this good for us? Because every entertainment company would become very wary of labelling us all 'pirates' and might actually realise that digital distribution at a fair price is their future.
D'oh somebody has already written something to this effect whilst I was typing!!
But do you really think a court will decide that way. Not likely, especially if it's a judge from the wealth maximisation school of thought.
Glideslope
Apr 19, 07:19 PM
Apple better not win this case and anyone who thinks that they should are a fool.
Well, count me in. After reading the complaint, it's rock solid. :apple:
Well, count me in. After reading the complaint, it's rock solid. :apple:
mdntcallr
Jul 27, 11:39 AM
No that isn't true. The desktop Macs have socketed processors but the portables are soldered to the logic board - there are sites that do dissections of new machines and they confirmed it.
Replaceable: iMac, Mac mini
Soldered: MacBook, MacBook Pro.
Please don't post false and misleading information.
Chundles and the others are right. THE CPU is SOLDERED on to the logic board.
That said, it does NOT mean the CPU cannot be upgraded. There are mac upgrade companies which are soon to launch services where you can fedex in your laptop in, and within days, they will replace the cpu, solder expertly on a new one, and you will be very happy with a new / faster CPU.
honestly, right now i do not believe the power differential to be worth it. it would be better to wait for chips with a larger speed differential.
Replaceable: iMac, Mac mini
Soldered: MacBook, MacBook Pro.
Please don't post false and misleading information.
Chundles and the others are right. THE CPU is SOLDERED on to the logic board.
That said, it does NOT mean the CPU cannot be upgraded. There are mac upgrade companies which are soon to launch services where you can fedex in your laptop in, and within days, they will replace the cpu, solder expertly on a new one, and you will be very happy with a new / faster CPU.
honestly, right now i do not believe the power differential to be worth it. it would be better to wait for chips with a larger speed differential.
Voltes V
Sep 14, 09:24 PM
:eek: :eek:
What's planned after that? 16 cores on a chip? Seriously?? :confused: :confused:
yeah, who would've thought we're having quad core 4 years ago.
What's planned after that? 16 cores on a chip? Seriously?? :confused: :confused:
yeah, who would've thought we're having quad core 4 years ago.
ctdonath
Mar 22, 03:14 PM
The prices are official. Stop this fanboy **** about "it's not released yet".
Well, it isn't.
And when it is, it's at best a tiny marginal improvement over what's already available.
0.1mm thinner? uh, ok.
Better camera? wait, weren't the haters whining about using a tablet as a camera? ok, so it's a better version but still inferior to other pocket cameras & SLRs.
Android? shrug.
Likewise other specs. Apply standard iPad2 naysaying as appropriate.
Yeah, nice it's better (a little), but it's struggling to catch up to where the iPad already is right now, and will reach consumers when the iPad2 is already a quarter thru its life cycle.
Well, it isn't.
And when it is, it's at best a tiny marginal improvement over what's already available.
0.1mm thinner? uh, ok.
Better camera? wait, weren't the haters whining about using a tablet as a camera? ok, so it's a better version but still inferior to other pocket cameras & SLRs.
Android? shrug.
Likewise other specs. Apply standard iPad2 naysaying as appropriate.
Yeah, nice it's better (a little), but it's struggling to catch up to where the iPad already is right now, and will reach consumers when the iPad2 is already a quarter thru its life cycle.
Nuck81
Dec 11, 12:31 PM
Got a DFGT yesterday.
I totally suck right now, I'm about six seconds off my usual lap times, but it takes the game to a completely new level. I really can't believe it has taken me this long to get a good wheel.
My future father in law is a custom carpenter and he is going to build me a mounting stand for my wheel. I'll post some pics when he gets it done.
If you get the opportunity, don't miss out on snagging yourself a wheel!!!
I totally suck right now, I'm about six seconds off my usual lap times, but it takes the game to a completely new level. I really can't believe it has taken me this long to get a good wheel.
My future father in law is a custom carpenter and he is going to build me a mounting stand for my wheel. I'll post some pics when he gets it done.
If you get the opportunity, don't miss out on snagging yourself a wheel!!!
Hellhammer
Nov 24, 09:37 AM
Anyone been playing the game yet? I saw on other forums, people got the game yesterday. People called stores around where they lived and some stores already had it out.
I've been playing it for the last 5 hours. The last GT I played was GT2 so I can't say how this compares to GT4 but so far it's been amazing
I've been playing it for the last 5 hours. The last GT I played was GT2 so I can't say how this compares to GT4 but so far it's been amazing
lasuther
Apr 6, 03:34 PM
The integrated Intel HD 3000 seems to be about equal to the integrated GeForce 320M when Barefeets did their tests on vidoe games.
On Portal, the HD3000 was 68FPS and the 320M was 65FPS.
On X-Plane, the HD3000 was 38FPS and the 320M was 43FPS.
Certainly worth moving to SB processors.
http://www.barefeats.com/mbps04.html
The 4Gig RAM limit is more critical than the change in graphics.
On Portal, the HD3000 was 68FPS and the 320M was 65FPS.
On X-Plane, the HD3000 was 38FPS and the 320M was 43FPS.
Certainly worth moving to SB processors.
http://www.barefeats.com/mbps04.html
The 4Gig RAM limit is more critical than the change in graphics.
mkjellman
Sep 18, 11:06 PM
APPLE I NEED A NEW MACBOOK PRO. I NEED FIREWIRE 800, I NEED A DL SuperDrive, i'd like MEMROM. If you had to release a half-assed Prosumer laptop in the first place to start your transition for the love of god PLEASE update it now. Its been a LONG time since we've seen any updates. Apple is now competing in INTEL land, were they need to keep their laptops current. Release the laptops (notebooks in your case as you like to call them) i'll place the order and wait for them to ship. PLEASE.!
mike
mike
illegalprelude
Aug 25, 04:06 PM
So far, i havent been the happiest camper with Apple's support. Having Apple Care on my PowerMac G5, I can tell you I got more of a run-around then any other time ive needed service on a unit. It started with Apple sending me to an Authorised Repair center to replace my Ethernet Card (so the entire logic board had to go, this story btw dates back to xmas) and from there on, my unit with Kurnil Panic all the time, i mean 7 times a day. 2 or 3 random programs opening and back, complete lock up with a full shut down needed.
I had to of course drag my PowerMac 30 miles everytime, drag it to a store (6 times over all before they took care of the problem and dragging a PM through the mall, it gets heavy real fast) and they then blamed it on everytime from "heat" to my "battery backup" to "envirmental issues" to "external HDD". Just every single BS they could think of because all these devices for 2 years prior worked just fine but now they suddenly wanna glitch up? come on now. Finally, finally, 6 visits, 2 calls to AppleCare and a month and a half later did they replace my LogicBoard and processor and find one or both of those to be the problem. Sorry but this is what I get for buying a Pro consumer computer, .Mac service and AppleCare :mad:
Im not saying other units dont have problems. Everything does but it sure as hell seems like from the 1st time the MacBooks hit out, we have seen an uprise in problems from heat, to freezing, to failed drives etc.
Im sure ill get alot of "pro apple kool-aid drinker" attacks from this but this dosent make me any less of an Apple enthusiest or whatever but I work hard for my money and I demand the same quality and service from Apple as I do from any other company. Clear Example iMikeT
I had to of course drag my PowerMac 30 miles everytime, drag it to a store (6 times over all before they took care of the problem and dragging a PM through the mall, it gets heavy real fast) and they then blamed it on everytime from "heat" to my "battery backup" to "envirmental issues" to "external HDD". Just every single BS they could think of because all these devices for 2 years prior worked just fine but now they suddenly wanna glitch up? come on now. Finally, finally, 6 visits, 2 calls to AppleCare and a month and a half later did they replace my LogicBoard and processor and find one or both of those to be the problem. Sorry but this is what I get for buying a Pro consumer computer, .Mac service and AppleCare :mad:
Im not saying other units dont have problems. Everything does but it sure as hell seems like from the 1st time the MacBooks hit out, we have seen an uprise in problems from heat, to freezing, to failed drives etc.
Im sure ill get alot of "pro apple kool-aid drinker" attacks from this but this dosent make me any less of an Apple enthusiest or whatever but I work hard for my money and I demand the same quality and service from Apple as I do from any other company. Clear Example iMikeT
Lord Blackadder
Mar 22, 02:48 PM
There's no denying what is happening in Libya. A dictator is slaughtering his own people.
Not only that, but the Libyan opposition support the NFZ and associated airstrikes, while also making it clear they do not want or need ground troops. We didn't have anything like that in Iraq. As long as we respect the opposition's conditions they will remain friendly to the UN-mandated forces.
As long as there is a de facto oppositon movement (controlling large portions of the country) that desires UN help, as long as no foreign ground troops are involved, and as long as the UN sanctions the affiar, this can never be another Iraq or Afghanistan.
Not only that, but the Libyan opposition support the NFZ and associated airstrikes, while also making it clear they do not want or need ground troops. We didn't have anything like that in Iraq. As long as we respect the opposition's conditions they will remain friendly to the UN-mandated forces.
As long as there is a de facto oppositon movement (controlling large portions of the country) that desires UN help, as long as no foreign ground troops are involved, and as long as the UN sanctions the affiar, this can never be another Iraq or Afghanistan.
Loading
Apr 8, 04:46 AM
Ok, I am amazed at some of the ignorance some of these people have posted. People here some rumor from an anonymous BB Employee who obviously knows nothing about Best Buy and there out grabbing pitchforks and torches. I do work for BB (almost 5 years) and I can tell you that we do not have a "Quota" for ANY product we sell as well as none of the employees work on any commission. We have been receiving iPad 2s, do we know when we are getting them...NO. But here is the thing, Best Buy had a reserve list for customers shortly after the release. Customers who wanted to get on the reserve list had to leave a $100 deposit toward the iPad (reserve list is now closed). When the shipment comes in those customers who are on the list get contacted and have 48 hours to come pick up the unit. If they do not come within those 48 hours it goes to the next on the list and they get moved to the back of the list. YES that does mean that we are not selling them on the floor until those reserves have been fulfilled. Now if we get some iPad models that we do not have anyone on a reserve list for (like a white/16GB/WiFi) those go straight to the floor for first come first serve. Again there is no Quota. Hope this helps clear up the process understanding.
rickjs
Apr 6, 03:15 PM
people will buy a xoom just because its not made by apple.
EXACTLY! But it doesn't make the Xoom or the iPad 2 any less of a great product. I advice everyone who gets a chance to use it. Actually use the Xoom and see it's not so bad. I really think many of you guys are just hating on it because it's not an apple product so it obviously can't compare. -_-
EXACTLY! But it doesn't make the Xoom or the iPad 2 any less of a great product. I advice everyone who gets a chance to use it. Actually use the Xoom and see it's not so bad. I really think many of you guys are just hating on it because it's not an apple product so it obviously can't compare. -_-
MacSawdust
Aug 26, 10:40 AM
This nows explains why mine is not valid.
Bill McEnaney
Apr 28, 12:40 PM
And you sure do like to talk in circles. So doubting and not believing the certificate is legitimate are two different things. What in the heck are you talking about?? You birthers are all alike...in the face of being proven wrong, you just try to make stuff up as you go along.
I ask you whether Rockwell Blake would be a competent President of the United States. You reply, "I have no idea. Who's Rockwell Blake?" You don't believe that he would be a competent President of the United States. You don't doubt that he would do that. You haven't formed any opinion about whether he would be a competent one.
I ask you whether Rockwell Blake would be a competent President of the United States. You reply, "I have no idea. Who's Rockwell Blake?" You don't believe that he would be a competent President of the United States. You don't doubt that he would do that. You haven't formed any opinion about whether he would be a competent one.
Gurutech
Aug 7, 08:16 PM
Yes, absolutely:
Enhanced 64-bit Support
Leopard delivers 64-bit power in one, universal OS. Now Cocoa and Carbon application frameworks, as well as graphics, scripting, and the rest of the system are all 64-bit. Leopard delivers 64-bit power to both Intel- and PowerPC-based Macs, so you don�t have to install separate applications for different machines. There�s only one version of Mac OS X, so you don�t need to maintain separate operating systems for different uses.
Bridge the Generation Gap
Now that the entire operating system is 64-bit, you can take full advantage of the Xeon chip in Mac Pro and Xserve. You get more processing power at up to 3.0GHz, without limiting your programs to command-line applications, servers, and computation engines. From G3 to Xeon, from MacBook to Xserve, there is just one Leopard.
Wait. Does this mean that the Leopard doesn't support current MBP or MB? the ones that use 32 bit Yonah based Core Duo CPU.
Enhanced 64-bit Support
Leopard delivers 64-bit power in one, universal OS. Now Cocoa and Carbon application frameworks, as well as graphics, scripting, and the rest of the system are all 64-bit. Leopard delivers 64-bit power to both Intel- and PowerPC-based Macs, so you don�t have to install separate applications for different machines. There�s only one version of Mac OS X, so you don�t need to maintain separate operating systems for different uses.
Bridge the Generation Gap
Now that the entire operating system is 64-bit, you can take full advantage of the Xeon chip in Mac Pro and Xserve. You get more processing power at up to 3.0GHz, without limiting your programs to command-line applications, servers, and computation engines. From G3 to Xeon, from MacBook to Xserve, there is just one Leopard.
Wait. Does this mean that the Leopard doesn't support current MBP or MB? the ones that use 32 bit Yonah based Core Duo CPU.
