Aztechian
Jul 27, 09:52 AM
Yes. I believe people who have gotten their hands on Core 2 Duo beta chips have put them in their mini's with no difference (except a massive speed boost)
Weren't the notebook CPU's soldered to the boards though?
^^^beat me to it ;-)
Weren't the notebook CPU's soldered to the boards though?
^^^beat me to it ;-)
.jpg "couple kissing. couple kissing")
gwangung
Apr 25, 03:07 PM
Location services is not the same as storing every place you've ever been.
Why does the db never get cleared?
If location info is required for an app, why would I want to use info from possibly over a year ago that may no longer be accurate?
I won't put on a tinfoil hat just yet. For now I'll just chalk this issue up to sloppy programming. ;)
Apple still fails to answer the question of "why?"
Why do they need it if it is not used?
I know why a web browser has a cache. At least the web browser is smart enough to clean that up after a while.
While I would also like to know why, I'm not sure this is a big deal as it seems to me that the remedy to going to be very simple: a) encryption is on by default, and/or b) flushing the database after, say, six months.
Why does the db never get cleared?
If location info is required for an app, why would I want to use info from possibly over a year ago that may no longer be accurate?
I won't put on a tinfoil hat just yet. For now I'll just chalk this issue up to sloppy programming. ;)
Apple still fails to answer the question of "why?"
Why do they need it if it is not used?
I know why a web browser has a cache. At least the web browser is smart enough to clean that up after a while.
While I would also like to know why, I'm not sure this is a big deal as it seems to me that the remedy to going to be very simple: a) encryption is on by default, and/or b) flushing the database after, say, six months.
grue
Apr 11, 08:39 PM
Overreact much? FCP hasn't even been announced and your company is already talking about jumping ship? I call b.s. I'm in LA and I haven't heard anyone talking about switching anything. What needed features do you need that don't already exist?
How about using more than one bloody core to render a timeline or do an export to the eternally-broken Compressor?
How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?
�stability?
�QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?
�better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?
�GPGPU/OpenCL?
etc etc
How about using more than one bloody core to render a timeline or do an export to the eternally-broken Compressor?
How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?
�stability?
�QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?
�better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?
�GPGPU/OpenCL?
etc etc
azentropy
Mar 31, 03:16 PM
Honeycomb is still not released as far as I know. When it's released and the code is not available, then we can talk.
The Motorola Xoom ships with Honeycomb. It has been released. You miss that???
The Motorola Xoom ships with Honeycomb. It has been released. You miss that???
jettredmont
Apr 10, 05:47 PM
A bit of selective hearing on the part of MacRumors with the quotes they chose to use. At first the video sounds great, dude is hyping what he saw from Apple. But later he gets called out from another speculating Apple is making a very significant change and distancing Final Cut from the real 'pro' users, dumbing it down, etc, and the guy who has seen it gets real quiet.. He is asked if he will update his editing studio's workflow to the new Final Cut, and he basically danced around the question, pleaded the 5th, and made it pretty clear that he is holding back some reservations about how the industry will adapt to the changes.
I'm assuming you've never dealt with Apple, or probably any NDA situation. In "leaking" this information, I'm sure he thought very carefully about what he was going to say and how, in order to stay within his NDA and on the "good side" of Apple. He rehearsed that (I'm sure the quotes weren't summoned on the spot), and presented what he'd rehearsed. This approach makes sure you get the most cool information out there without stepping over bounds. However, it leaves nothing for Q&A, as you see here. No, he won't say he'll commit to a new FCP workflow because he's not sure if he should acknowledge any kind of new workflow. He can't talk about if the interface has been "dumbed down" because discussing that intelligently ("dumbing down" is not exactly a precisely defined term) would require going into details on the interface he was likely expressly forbidden from discussing.
Personally I'm very interested to see what they do, I'm sure it will have huge improvements on real time rendering and performance, sounds like the whole thing is being rewritten. But it does worry me that the program could become more for mass audience and no longer the pro application it has been for the past decade.
No sense in debating before it's revealed, but I'd welcome a few "mass audience" nods so long as they enhance existing workflows. The last couple releases have had several features which catered to the "mass audience" more than to the "FCP Expert" audience, and I think they've made a much stronger product. IMHO, what is needed here is really a deep-down codebase cleanout, but any interface improvements would be nice.
I'm assuming you've never dealt with Apple, or probably any NDA situation. In "leaking" this information, I'm sure he thought very carefully about what he was going to say and how, in order to stay within his NDA and on the "good side" of Apple. He rehearsed that (I'm sure the quotes weren't summoned on the spot), and presented what he'd rehearsed. This approach makes sure you get the most cool information out there without stepping over bounds. However, it leaves nothing for Q&A, as you see here. No, he won't say he'll commit to a new FCP workflow because he's not sure if he should acknowledge any kind of new workflow. He can't talk about if the interface has been "dumbed down" because discussing that intelligently ("dumbing down" is not exactly a precisely defined term) would require going into details on the interface he was likely expressly forbidden from discussing.
Personally I'm very interested to see what they do, I'm sure it will have huge improvements on real time rendering and performance, sounds like the whole thing is being rewritten. But it does worry me that the program could become more for mass audience and no longer the pro application it has been for the past decade.
No sense in debating before it's revealed, but I'd welcome a few "mass audience" nods so long as they enhance existing workflows. The last couple releases have had several features which catered to the "mass audience" more than to the "FCP Expert" audience, and I think they've made a much stronger product. IMHO, what is needed here is really a deep-down codebase cleanout, but any interface improvements would be nice.
digitalbiker
Aug 27, 12:01 PM
Anyway, before you start babbling again, check the link below...these are FACTS, not whines.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2006502,00.asp
So please, before you spit out some fire, bring me some real facts, like percentage of failures and so on...the report I've read above shows Apple as having the LOWEST repair rate and HIGHEST trust of all makers. This, for me, is relevant; not random screams in Mac forums.
While I don't disagree with what you have said, I also think this PC Mag Poll may be a little misrepresentive of the current situation.
This is a readers poll from PC Mag users, I wonder how many are Mac users compared to PC users.
Second, they also state that Apple users are so fanatical and anti-pc that they are worried that they tend to exagerate the poll numbers in favor of Apple.
Third, the only less-subjective bit of information was the repair percentage numbers and the numbers they used were for last year (2005), so they would not reflect any problems with the new mac-intel machines. It seems like most of the issues currently being discussed are with the Mac-Intels.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2006502,00.asp
So please, before you spit out some fire, bring me some real facts, like percentage of failures and so on...the report I've read above shows Apple as having the LOWEST repair rate and HIGHEST trust of all makers. This, for me, is relevant; not random screams in Mac forums.
While I don't disagree with what you have said, I also think this PC Mag Poll may be a little misrepresentive of the current situation.
This is a readers poll from PC Mag users, I wonder how many are Mac users compared to PC users.
Second, they also state that Apple users are so fanatical and anti-pc that they are worried that they tend to exagerate the poll numbers in favor of Apple.
Third, the only less-subjective bit of information was the repair percentage numbers and the numbers they used were for last year (2005), so they would not reflect any problems with the new mac-intel machines. It seems like most of the issues currently being discussed are with the Mac-Intels.
Horst
Aug 28, 10:49 AM
Just my 0.02 regarding Apple's customer service :
I buy Apple computers in the hope never to need any support by the manufacturer. Two times I had issues ( broken hinge on TiBook, 1st. gen. ACD 23" with severe color tint ) and Apple wouldn't even acknowledge such a problem exists. Needless to say, those faults are well documented as inherent design flaws of the products mentioned.
That's Apple Germany, mind you - I would never even try to contact Apple US for possible issues with the computers I bought and use over there, as customer protection in the US is virtually non-existent.
I'm a professional user, and received exceptional online and phone support by other companies for 300$ products, but no service whatsoever for 20k+ of Apple products.
I know Apple is not catering to pros, but still ....
I buy Apple computers in the hope never to need any support by the manufacturer. Two times I had issues ( broken hinge on TiBook, 1st. gen. ACD 23" with severe color tint ) and Apple wouldn't even acknowledge such a problem exists. Needless to say, those faults are well documented as inherent design flaws of the products mentioned.
That's Apple Germany, mind you - I would never even try to contact Apple US for possible issues with the computers I bought and use over there, as customer protection in the US is virtually non-existent.
I'm a professional user, and received exceptional online and phone support by other companies for 300$ products, but no service whatsoever for 20k+ of Apple products.
I know Apple is not catering to pros, but still ....
MacinDoc
Aug 27, 03:23 AM
the iMac will get a conroe. Nothing can be as dumb as putting a laptop chip in the desktop iMac. If the iMac could hold a G5 in it, it sure can hold a Conroe chip.
So, does a dual core Conroe produce less heat than a G5? Remember, the iMac is essentially a laptop form factor, so heat dissipation is more difficult. I agree, though, it will get a Conroe chip, as long as it is cool enough.
So, does a dual core Conroe produce less heat than a G5? Remember, the iMac is essentially a laptop form factor, so heat dissipation is more difficult. I agree, though, it will get a Conroe chip, as long as it is cool enough.
shawnce
Jul 20, 11:55 AM
He was referring to my post in which I was referring to MWSF '07, not the WWDC.
Ah I see ... thought it was about WWDC 2006 my bad.
I still don't think we'll se a full release at MWSF but I think the date will be announced.
Yeah I don't think we will see 10.5 released at MWSF '07 (thinking CQ2 2007) but after I get back from WWDC I may have a different understanding of the current state of 10.5.
Ah I see ... thought it was about WWDC 2006 my bad.
I still don't think we'll se a full release at MWSF but I think the date will be announced.
Yeah I don't think we will see 10.5 released at MWSF '07 (thinking CQ2 2007) but after I get back from WWDC I may have a different understanding of the current state of 10.5.
jmgregory1
Mar 22, 04:01 PM
I can assure that doubling the 256MB of the first iPad is not enough for people that need a lot of multitask, like me.
I don't need to own an iPad 2.
The competitors have 1GB RAM, iPad 2 has 512MB.
It's simple: Apple is always behind hardware-wise because they like to priorize esthetics and appearance (besides the "so wonderful OS" ad). It's been this way for Macs, it seems to be the same way for iPads.
Android phones are selling more than iPhone.
iPhone has started a market, competitors are improving it.
iPad has started a market, competitors are improving it.
If you just can't recognize how multitask works better with 1GB RAM and true background apps (QNX, Honeycomb), then you deserve to use a limited thing like an iPad.
I've only bought the first iPad because there were no competitors at that time (and I hate netbooks), but now things are different. To be honest, A LOT different.
People said that the iPhone was going to be the best phone out there, but the market is showing something different.
People say the iPad is the best tablet out there, but it seems that the market is going to show something different.
There are 2 sides: Apple fanboys and realistic people.
I like products, not brands.
This is a simple look at a complex process. Adding more ram may be good in a system that doesn't control app usage well, but it's something completely different when the system can control for app processes. If you have a product that works perfectly well with a certain spec, is there a need to add more of a certain thing? What benefit does it offer? Apple is a smart company - why build more cost into hardware if you can make your software make up any potential shortcomings in hardware?
Of course the competition has to market its products as being different in some way compared to Apple and convince you, the buying public, that it means something to have double this or less of that.
Frankly, I think these companies should be trying to come up with the next thing - instead of just trying to compete against the iPad - but they won't do that. They'll wait until Apple releases the next new thing and just copy that. It's pitiful really.
I don't need to own an iPad 2.
The competitors have 1GB RAM, iPad 2 has 512MB.
It's simple: Apple is always behind hardware-wise because they like to priorize esthetics and appearance (besides the "so wonderful OS" ad). It's been this way for Macs, it seems to be the same way for iPads.
Android phones are selling more than iPhone.
iPhone has started a market, competitors are improving it.
iPad has started a market, competitors are improving it.
If you just can't recognize how multitask works better with 1GB RAM and true background apps (QNX, Honeycomb), then you deserve to use a limited thing like an iPad.
I've only bought the first iPad because there were no competitors at that time (and I hate netbooks), but now things are different. To be honest, A LOT different.
People said that the iPhone was going to be the best phone out there, but the market is showing something different.
People say the iPad is the best tablet out there, but it seems that the market is going to show something different.
There are 2 sides: Apple fanboys and realistic people.
I like products, not brands.
This is a simple look at a complex process. Adding more ram may be good in a system that doesn't control app usage well, but it's something completely different when the system can control for app processes. If you have a product that works perfectly well with a certain spec, is there a need to add more of a certain thing? What benefit does it offer? Apple is a smart company - why build more cost into hardware if you can make your software make up any potential shortcomings in hardware?
Of course the competition has to market its products as being different in some way compared to Apple and convince you, the buying public, that it means something to have double this or less of that.
Frankly, I think these companies should be trying to come up with the next thing - instead of just trying to compete against the iPad - but they won't do that. They'll wait until Apple releases the next new thing and just copy that. It's pitiful really.
gorgeousninja
Apr 19, 04:27 PM
I'm surprised to see iPhones have outsold iPod Touches by so much; I've never really considered the figures but just assumed that there would be way more iPod Touches around than iPhones.
Maybe your hanging out with too many kids/Android users. Why, otherwise would you need an iPhone and and iPod Touch?
Maybe your hanging out with too many kids/Android users. Why, otherwise would you need an iPhone and and iPod Touch?
BC2009
Apr 7, 11:42 PM
When I worked retail in high school I can remember we had a daily sales goal and that goal was based on how we had done last month and the previous year at that time. The managers were rated on their ability to achieve their sales goals and by how much they sold overall (i.e.: the best managers were the ones with the highest goals and still made their goals). However, the managers got dinged for missing for their goals.
I am betting that this is a game that Best Buy managers have played for quite some time to ensure they can consistently make their sales goals and avoid their their goals from being artificially inflated to a level where they could not consistently achieve their goals. I doubt this was a company-wide Best Buy policy, but rather a consequence of the way they do performance ratings on their store managers.
Either way it is DEFINITELY poor customer service. If somebody takes the time to drive down to your store and you have stock that has already been received into the inventory system and could be sold and you turn that customer away because the manager is looking out for his performance rating then you just told your customer that the manager's performance goals and ratings are more important than the people who help you achieve those goals with their hard-earned money.
I am betting that this is a game that Best Buy managers have played for quite some time to ensure they can consistently make their sales goals and avoid their their goals from being artificially inflated to a level where they could not consistently achieve their goals. I doubt this was a company-wide Best Buy policy, but rather a consequence of the way they do performance ratings on their store managers.
Either way it is DEFINITELY poor customer service. If somebody takes the time to drive down to your store and you have stock that has already been received into the inventory system and could be sold and you turn that customer away because the manager is looking out for his performance rating then you just told your customer that the manager's performance goals and ratings are more important than the people who help you achieve those goals with their hard-earned money.
MacSawdust
Aug 26, 10:40 AM
This nows explains why mine is not valid.
Hellhammer
Apr 6, 11:46 AM
So is that also true for the difference between SV and LV? If that is the case, the Core i7-2649M you cite above (2.3 LV chip) should be faster compared to the 2.3 i5 in the low end Pro 13?
Thanks!
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Sure clock speed isn't everything. But you better go read up some more on Tue Intel HD3000 IGP. You're using facts from the STD voltage SB IGP and applying them to the ULV SB IGP. Go read about the graphics on the Samsung Series 9 laptops. The 13" model uses this very chip cited. It shows greater than a 50% drop in graphics performance from the 320m to ULV IGP used in SB.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but it may not be as bad as 50% drop.
Thanks!
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Sure clock speed isn't everything. But you better go read up some more on Tue Intel HD3000 IGP. You're using facts from the STD voltage SB IGP and applying them to the ULV SB IGP. Go read about the graphics on the Samsung Series 9 laptops. The 13" model uses this very chip cited. It shows greater than a 50% drop in graphics performance from the 320m to ULV IGP used in SB.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but it may not be as bad as 50% drop.
Silentwave
Jul 15, 03:29 AM
10. Reasonably priced. Check out current PC boxes!
You know the more I think about it the more I question Apple's ability to make anything with a Xeon particularly cheap. I've been pricing all sorts of Dell workstations with the 5100 series Xeon-Woodcrest cores... even the single chip versions are not cheap. Granted, they may have inflated prices due to targeting at the large business market, but still they wouldn't be cheap. We'll see, but the more I think about it maybe we will see Conroe at the low end.
You know the more I think about it the more I question Apple's ability to make anything with a Xeon particularly cheap. I've been pricing all sorts of Dell workstations with the 5100 series Xeon-Woodcrest cores... even the single chip versions are not cheap. Granted, they may have inflated prices due to targeting at the large business market, but still they wouldn't be cheap. We'll see, but the more I think about it maybe we will see Conroe at the low end.
shawnce
Jul 27, 01:12 PM
The next gen of chips has 4 core versions of conroe and woodcrest, each with the same sockets as the ones they're replacing.
Those aren't next generation version of the Core 2 just MCM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Chip_Module) of the existing Core 2.
Those aren't next generation version of the Core 2 just MCM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Chip_Module) of the existing Core 2.
gugy
Aug 11, 12:22 PM
Seriously - unlocked phones won't float in the US. The carrier gives huge discounts and most of us don't really care about switching services (a lot people just get all their friends on the same network so all calling is free). I don't care how sweet the iPhone is. I'm not gonna pay 300-400 dollars for a phone when I can get one for 20 or less and stay with the carrier I plan to stay with anyway. Also note that I get a pretty nice company discount with the big guys on my plan and most all of my friends/family are with 1 carrier so it'd really be stupid of me to go with a diff carrier...
I agree with you. Unfortunately the USA cell phone market is sucks.
For me Apple has these options to make the iphone as popular as the ipod.
� offer it to all USA carriers. GSM and CDMA
� offer their own Apple network (hard option, because people would wait to see first if the network is reliable and wait for the end of their current carrier contracts to move to it)
� Make it very affordable to entice people to buy it. Less than $200
I agree with you. Unfortunately the USA cell phone market is sucks.
For me Apple has these options to make the iphone as popular as the ipod.
� offer it to all USA carriers. GSM and CDMA
� offer their own Apple network (hard option, because people would wait to see first if the network is reliable and wait for the end of their current carrier contracts to move to it)
� Make it very affordable to entice people to buy it. Less than $200
rezenclowd3
Nov 24, 05:09 PM
I'm utterly disappointed in the single player...but alas it really has not changed since ALL the other versions. Online is where I will be spending my time.
On another note, so very dissapointed with video game reviews the last 3 or so years. They are more an overview of what the game is, not a review of the game, along with its pro's and con's. IGNs review for GT5 is somewhat decent..but just barely.
On another note, so very dissapointed with video game reviews the last 3 or so years. They are more an overview of what the game is, not a review of the game, along with its pro's and con's. IGNs review for GT5 is somewhat decent..but just barely.
SevenInchScrew
Nov 29, 12:38 PM
Play it over the weekend - My biggest problem is theres nothing ground breaking about it. Kind of "more of the same" but with updated graphics (VERY good graphics mind you).
That is, sadly, pretty much how I feel as well. It sure is pretty. I mean, DAMN does it look amazing at times. I really enjoyed Photo Mode as well. But beyond that, I just didn't find the rest of it very compelling. I've said this before, but it just seems that the product that Kaz and PD want to make just doesn't appeal to me any more. Which is a bummer, because I REALLY enjoyed the first few GT games.
That is, sadly, pretty much how I feel as well. It sure is pretty. I mean, DAMN does it look amazing at times. I really enjoyed Photo Mode as well. But beyond that, I just didn't find the rest of it very compelling. I've said this before, but it just seems that the product that Kaz and PD want to make just doesn't appeal to me any more. Which is a bummer, because I REALLY enjoyed the first few GT games.
yadmonkey
Aug 11, 03:17 PM
Apple's reasons for being secretive about product releases don't apply to their potential phone because they don't have a current product which they want people to buy in the meantime. In fact, this time around, it'll be advantageous to Apple for people to know it's coming, as they may hold out for one instead of getting something else. Once there is an iPhone, then they will probably be secretive about the next version.
Multimedia
Jul 15, 05:15 AM
I prefer the Simpsons' parody of that cartoon:
"...and I'll make Ted Kennedy pay, if he fights back I'll say that he's gay."
But seriously, the $1799 price point is a step in the right direction. If we could get it down to $1599 or <gasp> $1499, then that would be the de facto mini tower so many have clamored for. I would like a redesigned case, but that'll come eventually.
Sometimes the right price can make a person forget about what might have been.We have that already on the Refurbished page. :) Dual Core 2GHz G5 is only $1699 there. Quad only $2799. So your dream of $1499 will come when the 2GHz Core 2 Duo Mac Pro hits the refurb page - which, according to recent history, should happen before Christmas.I believe that the MacBook was on the refurb page in around 3-4 weeks. The iMac Core Duo took AGES though.Yes MacBook broke the speed record for shift to the refurb page in record time. Right now everything is up there except the 17" MacBook Pros. My Quad made it there in only 3 months last Winter.
"...and I'll make Ted Kennedy pay, if he fights back I'll say that he's gay."
But seriously, the $1799 price point is a step in the right direction. If we could get it down to $1599 or <gasp> $1499, then that would be the de facto mini tower so many have clamored for. I would like a redesigned case, but that'll come eventually.
Sometimes the right price can make a person forget about what might have been.We have that already on the Refurbished page. :) Dual Core 2GHz G5 is only $1699 there. Quad only $2799. So your dream of $1499 will come when the 2GHz Core 2 Duo Mac Pro hits the refurb page - which, according to recent history, should happen before Christmas.I believe that the MacBook was on the refurb page in around 3-4 weeks. The iMac Core Duo took AGES though.Yes MacBook broke the speed record for shift to the refurb page in record time. Right now everything is up there except the 17" MacBook Pros. My Quad made it there in only 3 months last Winter.
rjohnstone
Apr 25, 02:55 PM
On any android device, you can opt out beginning with the setup of the device. It's not hidden in the TOS when you buy the device.
This...
You are explicitly asked if you want Google to collect this information.
You can say NO. It does reduce the accuracy of some programs when you opt out, but YOU have the choice.
You do have the option to enable this feature at any time if you feel you need too.
This...
You are explicitly asked if you want Google to collect this information.
You can say NO. It does reduce the accuracy of some programs when you opt out, but YOU have the choice.
You do have the option to enable this feature at any time if you feel you need too.
LethalWolfe
Apr 10, 08:30 PM
When this hits it's going to piss a lot of people off.
Or make a lot of people happy. Either way everyone's going to be paying attention.
Lethal
Or make a lot of people happy. Either way everyone's going to be paying attention.
Lethal
Virtualball
Apr 19, 02:19 PM
Well if I'm wrong about the information, then I don't think anyone will argue about the fact that the Palm OS has been around since 1996, and the Apple iPhone uses a similar interface..
All I'm saying is that If there were devices using a similar interface before the iPhone came out I don't see how its fair to sue anyone for it..
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9153/palmtranicononpalmos.jpg
Sigh, you're entirely missing the point of this case. No one's arguing that there's been a grid of icons before, it's just that Samsung went the extra step. See, Android itself doesn't have a near-identical desktop, but TouchWiz does. TouchWiz is what you see here, the icons have been made into squares (like the iPhone), there's now a Dock with frequently used apps with a grey background to distinguish it (like the iPhone), it has a black background (meh) but it uses white dots to note the page it's on (like the iPhone). They went the extra mile to provide an iPhone-like experience for their Android devices.
All I'm saying is that If there were devices using a similar interface before the iPhone came out I don't see how its fair to sue anyone for it..
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9153/palmtranicononpalmos.jpg
Sigh, you're entirely missing the point of this case. No one's arguing that there's been a grid of icons before, it's just that Samsung went the extra step. See, Android itself doesn't have a near-identical desktop, but TouchWiz does. TouchWiz is what you see here, the icons have been made into squares (like the iPhone), there's now a Dock with frequently used apps with a grey background to distinguish it (like the iPhone), it has a black background (meh) but it uses white dots to note the page it's on (like the iPhone). They went the extra mile to provide an iPhone-like experience for their Android devices.
